Preamble

The House met at a Quarter before Three of the Clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

Glasgow Water and Tramways Order Confirmation Bill,

Considered; to be read the Third time To-morrow.

Ministry of Health Provisional Order (Canterbury) Bill,

Ministry of Health Provisional Order (Ilkley) Bill,

Read a Second time, and committed.

Oral Answers to Questions — BRITISH INTERNEES, GERMANY (PARCELS).

Mr. Keeling: asked the Prime Minister what arrangements have been made, in consultation with the Red Cross and Order of Saint John, for the despatch of parcels to British civilians interned in Germany?

The Prime Minister (Mr. Chamberlain): Parcels for British civilians interned in Germany may be sent through the intermediary of the Prisoners of War Department of the War Organisation of the British Red Cross Society and Order of St. John of Jerusalem. The arrangements for packing and despatching parcels are similar to those described by my right hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for War, in answer to a question on 5th December in regard to prisoners of war. Instructions for the guidance of relatives and others desiring to send parcels have been drawn up by the Prisoners of War Department and have been sent to persons interested in the welfare of interned civilians. A number of parcels of food and clothing have already been despatched by the Department, and further parcels are now being sent regularly to all known internees.

Oral Answers to Questions — RUSSIA.

NEGOTIATIONS (WHITE PAPER).

Mr. Levy: asked the Prime Minister whether he will lay a White Paper dealing with the Anglo-Russian talks before the war for a united front against aggression, so that the world may know what sort of bargain involving certain small States the Soviet sought to make; or alternatively will he consider making a statement to the House, since the House has never been officially informed, of the character and scope of the Moscow negotiations?

Mr. Mander: asked the Prime Minister whether he will now, in the light of recent events, reconsider the decision of the Government not to publish in the form of a White Paper particulars of the Anglo-Russian negotiations prior to the outbreak of war?

Mr. Boothby: asked the Prime Minister whether, during the final stage of the negotiations the Soviet Government put forward demands for the political domination of the Baltic States, including Finland, as a condition of signing a pact of mutual assistance; and whether our refusal to accept these demands was the cause of the breakdown of the negotiations?

The Prime Minister: My Noble Friend is having a White Paper prepared, showing the course of the negotiations which took place with the Soviet Government earlier in the year. This will be laid before the House as soon as possible, but its preparation will necessarily take some little time.

Mr. Boothby: May I ask the Prime Minister whether he will take steps to see that the contents of this White Paper are widely distributed among the neutral countries?

The Prime Minister: Yes, Sir.

Mr. Thorne: If the White Paper is ready during the Recess, will the Government have it sent round to the Members of the House?

The Prime Minister: Yes, Sir, it will be sent round if it is ready during the Recess.

BRITISH SUBJECTS' CLAIMS.

Sir Cooper Rawson: asked the Prime Minister whether he has taken any further action to press for satisfaction of the claim of Mr. Joseph Martin, of Brighton, for suffering and damage caused by fever, blindness and other injuries resulting from the brutal treatment he received during his imprisonment, without trial, in Moscow by the Soviet Government in 1919 to 1920, or, in lieu of obtaining compensation from the Soviet Government, will he now consider granting compensation to Mr. Martin, in view of the fact that His Majesty's Government, on 2nd May, 1923, omitted to include Mr. Martin's claim with those of Mrs. Davison and Mrs. Stan Harding to the Soviet Government, both of whom received compensation, although these three were the only claims which had been taken up with the Soviet Government, investigated, and compensation found to be due prior to May, 1923?

The Prime Minister: No, Sir. This very hard case was the subject of representations to the Soviet Government in the year 1922, but it has been found impossible, except in the two cases mentioned, to obtain satisfaction in respect either of Mr. Martin's claim or of any of the other numerous claims for compensation which are still outstanding. As regards the suggestion that His Majesty's Government should grant compensation to Mr. Martin in respect of his claim, it is not felt possible to make a special exception in his case, which differs in no essential respect from any of the other 260 claims for personal injury outstanding against the Soviet Government.

Sir C. Rawson: Is the Prime Minister aware that these three cases of Mr. Martin, Mrs. Stan Harding, and Mrs. Davison, were the only three cases which were thoroughly gone into, and that they stand in a class entirely by themselves and distinct from the other 260 cases?

The Prime Minister: No, Sir. I am informed that that is not the case and that Mr. Martin's case cannot be distinguished from many other cases outstanding.

Sir C. Rawson: Have I any opportunity of bringing the case before the Prime Minister, or before someone, in the presence of Mr. Martin himself, who has been blind all these years?

The Prime Minister: This has been before us for 17 years.

Oral Answers to Questions — LEAGUE OF NATIONS (GERMANY AND POLAND).

Mr. Mander: asked the Prime Minister what action was taken in speech or resolution at the meetings of the Council and Assembly of the League of Nations with reference to German aggression against Poland in breach of the Covenant in the light of Article 17; and whether he will report generally on the result of the meetings?

The Prime Minister: So far as I am aware, no opportunity has yet arisen for this matter to be touched on. As regards the second part of the question, I hope to make a statement to-morrow.

Oral Answers to Questions — ROYAL AIR FORCE.

RETIRED OFFICERS (ACTIVE LIST).

Commander Sir Archibald Southby: asked the Secretary of State for Air whether retired officers who, before the outbreak of war, were being employed at the Air Ministry in the place of officers on the Active List, will now be placed on the Active List with effect from the outbreak of war?

The Secretary of State for Air (Sir Kingsley Wood): All such officers have been placed on the Active List or are being offered commissions in the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve with effect from 1st November.

Oral Answers to Questions — FLYING SCHOOL, HEREFORDSHIRE (LAND).

Mr. Jackson: asked the Secretary of State for Air why he has taken land for a flying school in Herefordshire; whether he consulted the Minister of Agriculture before doing so; and whether he is satisfied that other suitable land, less valuable for food production, was not available?

Sir K. Wood: The land referred to by the hon. Member was urgently required for training purposes. In the time available it was not possible to find any suitable alternative, but in consultation with the Ministry of Agriculture the plans were so arranged as to ensure that as little interference as possible was caused to agricultural interests.

Oral Answers to Questions — BUILDINGS (REQUISITIONING).

Mr. Denville: asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he can now make any statement on the intention of his Department to take over a theatre in the South of England for the use of the Royal Air Force; and whether, before adopting such a procedure on the lines of the requisitioning of hotels and schools, he will reconsider the necessity for this in the public interest?

Sir K. Wood: The proposal to take over the theatre referred to for use as a lecture hall in connection with Royal Air Force training has now been abandoned.

Mr. W. Roberts: asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will give an assurance that he will not commandeer the newly-erected school at Silloth as a hospital, as this school is urgently required for the needs both of the resident children and a large influx of evacuees, and as an equipped convalescent home at Silloth and other buildings are available and suitable for hospital emergencies?

Sir K Wood: There is no present intention of requisitioning this building for Royal Air Force purposes.

Oral Answers to Questions — ABBOTSINCH AERODROME (SUB- CONTRACTS).

Mr. J. J. Davidson: asked the Secretary of State for Air the number of Scottish sub-contractors now employed on the Abbotsinch contract of Mowlems, Limited, and the amount of such subcontracted work up to date?

Sir K. Wood: There are 15 Scottish firms employed at Abbotsinch as sub-contractors to J. Mowlem & Company, Limited, and the approximate value of this sub-contracted work to date is £250,000. These figures are exclusive of firms most of whom are Scottish, who supply materials only.

Oral Answers to Questions — AIR CADET CORPS.

Sir Lindsay Everard: asked the Secretary of State for Air whether, in view of the success which has attended the Air Cadet Corps, it is intended to reconsider the grants made to squadrons?

Sir K. Wood: While fully appreciating the valuable work done by this organisation, I regret that I am unable to hold out any hope of increasing the assistance at present given to it from public funds.

Oral Answers to Questions — BALLOON BARRAGES (PERSONNEL).

Lieut.-Colonel Sir Thomas Moore: asked the Secretary of State for Air whether the conditions of the men attending to the balloon barrages are regarded as satisfactory, especially in respect of clothing and comfort?

Sir K. Wood: There has been delay in the provision of certain articles of clothing due to the rapid expansion in the numbers of personnel. This also caused, at the outset, certain difficulties in regard to accommodation. But I am advised that the situation in both respects is now generally satisfactory.

Oral Answers to Questions — FINLAND (AIRCRAFT, SUPPLIES).

Mr. G. Strauss: asked the Secretary of State for Air why the, aeroplanes sent by British firms to Finland are not required by this country for the purposes of the present war?

Sir K. Wood: After consideration of all the facts the Government decided to grant export licences to a British firm to enable them to send these aircraft to Finland.

Mr. Strauss: Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is wrong to divert these supplies from the purposes of the present war?

Sir K. Wood: No, Sir; I am afraid that I do not agree with that statement.

Mr. Strauss: Does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that there is danger in this type of action of getting this country involved in another war at the same time?

Oral Answers to Questions — COLONIES (ADMINISTRATIVE STAFFS).

Mr. Paling: asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the staffs of the administration services in the Colonies are being kept up to their full numbers; and what steps are being taken to secure the necessary number of new entrants to the services?

The Secretary of State for the Colonies (Mr. Malcolm MacDonald): Generally speaking, the answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, though a certain number of Colonial officers have


been recalled for duty with reserve forces of which they are members, and others have been released for service with local military forces now mobilised. As regards the second part of the question, recruitment for the Colonial Administrative Service and several oťher important branches during the first year of the war has already been ensured n a scale only very slightly below the average of the last three peace years, and proposals for recruitment after September next are now being actively considered.

Mr. Paling: Will ťhese people be among the new age groups that are being called up?

Mr. MacDonald: Many of them are, and many of them are being accepted because of the exceedingly good work which they are going to do.

Oral Answers to Questions — BRITISH GUIANA.

PETROLEUM (PRODUCTION) ORDINANCE.

Mr. Paling: asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he can give any information about the Petroleum (Production) Ordinance, 1939, now being considered by the British Guiana Legislature; and whether the ordinance is meeting with any considerable opposition either in the Legislative Council or in the Colony?

Mr. M. MacDonald: I will send ťhe hon. Member a copy of the Bill which has been introduced in the Legislative Council of British Guiana to provide for the vesting in the Crown of the property in Petroleum and natural gas wiťhin the Colony, on the lines of the United Kingdom Petroleum (Production) Act, 1934.I understand that the Bill has met with some opposition.

Mr. Paling: Has legislation somewhat similar to this been passed in any other British Colony, and, if so, does this Bill follow ťhat legislation in all particulars?

Mr. MacDonald: Similar legislation has been passed in one or two other British territories at any rate, and in principle the legislation is the same.

WAGES.

Mr. Paling: asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of the rising cost of living in British Guiana, any increase in wages has been made to the workers in the Colony, and to workers on the sugar estates in particular?

Mr. MacDonald: I understand that wages have been increased in certain industries, and that in other industries, including the sugar industry, as well as in the case of certain Government employés, the question is under consideration.

Mr. Paling: Is there not considerable disquiet in the sugar industry in particular in this Colony at the present time, and will the right hon. Gentleman see that these wages are increased?

Mr. MacDonald: There is a good deal of discussion about the matter, and the representatives of the employers and the employés are now in touch on the matter.

COLONIAL EMPIRE MARKETING BOARD.

Mr. Creech Jones: asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Colonial Empire Marketing Board is still functioning, or whether consideration of colonial economic and commercial organisation has been deferred for the war period?

Mr. M. MacDonald: The operations of the Colonial Empire Marketing Board have been suspended for the time being, because it is clear that under war conditions it would be impossible for the board to perform its normal functions. A great deal of attention is, however, being devoted to the economic organisation of the Colonial Empire, and for this reason I have recently enlarged the Economic Department of the Colonial Office.

Mr. Riley: Will a report of the work of the Colonial Empire Marketing Board be presented to the House in the next few months?

Mr. MacDonald: I will consider that suggestion. The board only completed about one year's work before the war broke out, but I will consider whether any report of its year's work might be published.

Oral Answers to Questions — TRANSPORT.

ROAD ACCIDENTS.

Mr. Leach: asked the Minister of Transport whether he will impose a 15 miles per hour speed limit during the black-out hours in order to reduce road casualties?

The Minister of Transport (Captain Wallace): I am riot convinced that the object which the hon. Member has in view, and with which I am, of course, in cordial agreement, would necessarily be achieved by the imposition of a reduced speed limit, but my right hon. Friend the Minister of Home Security and I are taking steps to review this and any other measure which may be considered as likely to lead to a reduction of road casualties during the black-out period.

Mr. Leach: In view of the general chorus from the motorists behind the right hon. and gallant Gentleman when he gave the first part of his answer, what proposition is he prepared to make in order o reduce the road casualties, which are heavily on the increase?

Captain Wallace: I am prepared to take any practical step which I am assured will achieve the object desired, and on the day when I become convinced that a proposal of this kind will achieve the object that we have in view, I shall be prepared to recommend it.

Mr. Leach: Having rejected mine, what is yours?

Vice-Admiral Taylor: Would not the Minster make it compulsory for pedestrians not to use the crossings against the traffic lights?

Captain Wallace: That is a different question. Perhaps my hon. and gallant Friend will put it down.

Mr. Davidson: asked the Minister of Transport the number of road accidents in Glasgow in which intemperance has been a primary or contributory factor?

Captain Wallace: The information asked for by the hon. Member is not available, and I regret that I am unable to add anything to the answer which I gave him on 15th November.

Mr. Davidson: Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the Glasgow local authorities are making an applica-

tion for restrictions based on alleged intemperance and have submitted figures, and does he not think he ought to submit figures to the Members of this House in order that they may understand the position clearly?

Captain Wallace: I know from the Press that there is considerable controversy going on in the city of Glasgow over this question, but, as I explained to the hon. Member on 15th November, it has not been possible to ask the police to make a detailed investigation into causes of accidents which alone would enable me to give the House the figures asked for.

Mr. Davidson: Is it not on record in the police courts whether or not intemperance has been a factor in regard to accidents, and will not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman get the information, in view of the controversy that affects Glasgow Members of this House?

Captain Wallace: I can certainly ask my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary to give me the information from the police courts as to the cases where it is on record, but I do not believe that that would be anything like a complete answer to the hon. Member's question.

Sir Francis Fremantle: Is it not perfectly clear from all the medical surroundings that this is a very serious cause of accidents?

AIR-RAID SHELTERS (RAILWAY SIGNAL- BOXES, SCOTLAND).

Mr. Woodburn: asked the Minister of Transport why no air-raid shelters are provided by the London Midland and Scottish Railway Company for the men in one of the most important signal-boxes in Scotland, in East Stirlingshire, when this protection is afforded the men in the neighbouring London and North Eastern Railway Company's signal-box?

Captain Wallace: I am looking into this matter and will communicate with the hon. Member as soon as possible.

RAILWAY CARRIAGES (LIGHTING).

Mr. Thorne: asked the Minister of Transport whether he can give the reasons why the lighting inside railway carriages on the trains running down to Upminster do not have the same lights during the black-out hours as are on the Inner Circle, trains?

Captain Wallace: It has recently been arranged for trains in the tunnel sections of the Inner Circle, and as far as Bow Road, to run with full lighting. When trains are running on open sections such as the line to Upminster, this lighting has to be switched off; but permission has been given for the installation of special fittings which will give a subdued light to permit of reading in all coaches. The manufacture of these fittings and the extra electric wiring necessary will take time, and it may be some three months before all coaches on this line are fitted up.

Mr. Thorne: I take it for granted that these remedies will be effective before we have the black-out next year?

Captain Wallace: The three months to which I referred in my answer seems well within that time.

TRAVELLING FACILITIES, EVACUATION AREAS.

Mr. Silkin: asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware of the hardship caused to parents desiring to visit their children in the reception areas under the recent scheme for cheap fares by reason of the fact that these cheap tickets are available only to certain large stations; that on 3rd December certain parents visiting their children in Dulverton were given tickets to Taunton only and as, on arrival, they found there were no other means of transport to Dulverton available they had to make the rest of the journey by hiring a motor car at a cost of £1 10s.; that the times of the trains were such that they saw their children for one hour only; and will he give further consideration to the scheme, with a view to the removal of these hardships?

Captain Wallace: Every effort was made by the railway companies and my Department to ensure that parents using the special trains to reception areas were made aware of the places which could be reached from the stations served, and, as I have already explained in detail to the hon. Member, where, as in the case to which he refers, vouchers had been issued in error to places which could not conveniently be reached, steps were taken as soon as the errors were discovered to warn intending passengers of the difficulties before them. Profiting by the experience which has been gained from the

special trips which have been run during the last two Sundays, I hope to be able after Christmas to extend the scheme of cheap rail facilities to include additional places in the reception areas. The hon. Member will, however, appreciate the difficulty of providing for small numbers of visitors who wish to reach remote villages.

Mr. Silkin: While thanking the right hon. and gallant Gentleman for that reply, does he not realise that in this particular case mentioned in the question the arrangements did break down, and the people were put to considerable expense, which they could not afford, and will he consider making a refund to those people of the amount that they have spent?

Captain Wallace: The hon. Member has chosen a particularly unfortunate case in which to blame my Department, since the reason the arrangements broke down in this instance was because a teacher issued a voucher in error and contrary to instructions.

RAILWAY ACCIDENT, WALTHAMSTOW.

Mr. Sorensen: asked the Minister of Transport whether he has any information to give the House respecting the railway accident that occurred on the morning of 7th December, near Wood Street Station, Walthamstow; whether he is satisfied that the existing signalling system on the railways is adequate for fog and air-raid precautions diminished lighting conditions; when improved lighting for passenger coaches on the Leyton and Walthamstow lines is likely to be in complete operation; and what increase in accidents to passengers and staff has taken place during the past three months on the Leyton and Walthamstow lines?

Captain Wallace: This accident occurred when the 9.35 a.m. passenger train from Liverpool Street to Chingford, which was standing at the down home signal at Wood Street, was run into by the 9.45 a.m. train travelling over the same route. One coach of the standing train was derailed and the guard and six passengers were injured. There was thick fog at the time. The circumstances attending the accident are now being investigated. Colour-light signalling is in use on the section of line in question, and I am satisfied that this type of signalling is generally adequate for operation during


foggy weather. The signals are shielded from aerial observation by hoods and their brilliance has not been diminished as a result of the lighting restrictions. Some trains equipped with improved lighting will be in service on the Walthamstow line this week, and it is expected that all the rolling stock working these services will be equipped early in the New Year. I am informed that 34 accidents to passengers and staff occurred on the Leyton and Walthamstow lines during the months of September, October and November, 1938; the corresponding figure for 1939 was 45. These figures relate to all types of accidents, and the whole of the increase in 1939 is not necessarily attributable to black-out conditions.

Mr. Sorensen: Is the Minister satisfied that every precaution is being taken to prevent a recurrence of this type of accident, and will he also indicate when the Leyton and Walthamstow lines are likely to have the improved lighting?

Captain Wallace: . I think I said "early in the New Year" in my reply. With regard to the question of accidents, it is the duty of my railway inspecting staff to go into every one of these accidents and see that the lessons, if there are any to be derived from them, are learned and applied.

CHEAP FARE FACILITIES (RAILWAYS).

Sir Percy Harris: asked the Minister of Transport whether he will consider, with the Railway Executive Committee, the possibility of a further restoration of cheap fare facilities on the railways?

Captain Wallace: I am glad to inform the hon. Baronet that arrangements were made to restore, as from Monday last, 11th December, cheap day return bookings which were in regular operation before the war on a particular day or days in the week. This is an extension of the cheap day facilities which I was able to announce to the House on 4th October, and should be of benefit to the longer' distance traveller who was not covered by those arrangements. It is also proposed to reintroduce at an early date a number of cheap fare facilities applicable on certain occasions or in particular circumstances. These include occasional day tickets for special events; day tickets for anglers; tickets for

patients, escorts and visitors to convalescent homes, for relations and friends visiting or accompanying inmates of institutions for blind persons or mental deficients, and for day outings for juveniles.

Sir P. Harris: Are we to gather that these facilities will be available for the Christmas week-end?

Captain Wallace: They were restored as from Monday last, lrth December, so that they are in operation now.

Mr. John Morgan: Is the Minister considering cheap travel facilities for allotment holders going to their allotments?

OMNIBUSES, LONDON.

Mr. G. Strauss: asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the considerable dissatisfaction caused by the decrease since the outbreak of war in the number of omnibuses in use in the London Passenger Transport area, he will now increase the allocation of petrol to the London Passenger Transport Board?

Captain Wallace: As I explained in a reply which I gave to the hon. Member on 6th December, approximately 600 omnibuses have been restored to service by the board since fuel rationing was first introduced. The total amount of fuel available for goods and public passenger transport generally is limited, and some reduction in services must inevitably result. The fuel now available to the board represents a percentage 1 their
normal consumption approximately equivalent to the percentage allotment for goods and public passenger vehicles generally, and I should not feel justified in authorising an increase which could only be at the expense of other services.

Mr. Strauss: Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that, in spite of the restoration of some services, there are still very serious inconveniences to the travelling public of London; further, does he not agree that in the comparative claims of private and public passenger transport the latter is more important and should receive first consideration?

Captain Wallace: I have said in my answer that the London Passenger Transport Board are getting their fair share of the amount of fuel that is available for public passenger service vehicles gener-


ally, and I can only give them more by cutting other public passenger services down.

BRITISH BROADCASTING CORPORATION.

MID-DAY BULLETIN.

Mr. Robert Gibson: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Information on what representations the British Broadcasting Corporation altered the mid-day bulletin from noon to 1 p.m.; whether he is aware that 1 p.m. is quite as unsuitable as noon for millions of workers in factories, as at 1 p.m. they are just commencing their work; and whether he will represent to the British Broadcasting Corporation that 12.30 p.m. would be more suitable for these workers and add materially to the efficiency of the British Broadcasting Corporation's service?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Information (Sir Edward Grigg): As I informed the hon. Member on l0th October last, the B.B.C. altered the time of the mid-day bulletin from noon to 1 p.m. after making very full inquiries as to the time which would be most generally convenient to the public. The result showed clearly that for the adult working population as a whole 1 p.m. was a better listening time than 12.30 p.m.

Mr. Gibson: Is not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the facts contained in the question are correct, and will he represent to the B.B.C. that it is much easier for them to alter their programme than for owners and managers of factories to alter their times of work?

Sir E. Grigg: The B.B.C. conducted the most careful inquiries into this, and the result showed that while 1 p.m. was inconvenient to a large number of workers, 12.30 p.m. would be inconvenient to a much larger number, and it was found that 1 p.m. was, on the whole, much more convenient.

BOARD OF GOVERNORS.

Mr. Creech Jones: asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the present circumstances of the war, it is proposed to restore the British Broadcasting Corporation to its pre-war constitution, or

whether the existing arrangements will continue for the duration of the war?

The Prime Minister: I assume that the hon. Member refers to the reduction made on the outbreak of war in the membership of the Corporation's Board of Governors. It is not at present felt that any change in that arrangement would be advisable, but the matter will be kept under observation and reviewed from time to time.

Mr. Boothby: Can the Prime Minister do something to improve the programmes of the B.B.C.?

The Prime Minister: That is another question.

Mr. Attlee: May I ask the Prime Minister what object there is in existing circumstances in not restoring the old position of the Board in view of the fact that, as I understand it, it was only in contemplation of severe air raids that this step was taken?

The Prime Minister: The original alteration was made, I believe, in view of the fact that it would be necessary to take quick decisions in time of war, and that it would be difficult to get an adequate attendance of the Governors in the circumstances of war. Although things are not as bad in that respect as we expected, I am informed that it would still be undesirable to make the change; but, as I have already said, I will keep the matter under review.

GERMAN PROPAGANDA BROADCAST.

Mr. Marcus Samuel: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Information whether he take immediate steps to deny arid disprove the falsehoods contained in the German broadcast, in which it was stated that the services of a young Indian, educated in this country, were hired by the British Intelligence Service, that he was offered £150,000 to assassinate Mustapha Kemal, and that he was caught as a spy, tried, and sentenced to death?

Sir E. Grigg: My attention has been called to this story, which was broadcast from Germany last week. I do not


think it would be desirable to give to mendacious inventions of this kind the dignity of a formal denial.

Mr. Samuel: Is there any truth in the suggestion that the German broadcaster known as Lord Hee-Haw—[HoN. MEMBERS: "Haw-Haw."]—of Zeesen is being paid by the British Government to broadcast fantastic and demonstrably untrue assertions, so as to bring the Nazi Government and propaganda machine into ridicule and disrepute?

TRANSATLANTIC TELEPHONE SERVICE.

Sir Richard Wells: asked the Postmaster-General whether the Transatlantic telephone to the United States of America and Canada will be available for the public at Christmas?

The Postmaster-General (Major Tryon): The considerations which necessitated the suspension of the public use of the Transatlantic telephone service still hold good, and I am sorry that it will not be possible to make the service available for the public at Christmas.

ARMED FORCES (PARCELS).

Mr. Ammon: asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that in the Birmingham area there has been no reduction in the postage rate for parcels to soldiers serving in Palestine, that a parcel posted on 4th November was charged for at 2s. 9d. per 3 lbs. and one posted on 25th November, weighing 3 lbs. ½ oz., 3s. 6d.; whether he will take steps to have his announcement conveyed to the Birmingham post offices; and whether the Customs declarations, which have to be filled up and are complicated and vexatious, can be simplified, and particularly, the requirement as to stating the contents of a parcel in the language of the country in which the soldier is serving dispensed with as being one which mostly cannot be met?

Major Tryon: If the hon. Member will furnish me with further details of the parcels to which he refers, particularly the name and address of the sender and the name of the post office at which in-

correct rates were charged, I will gladly have inquiry made and any excess postage will be refunded. As the hon. Member may be aware, a very simple form of Customs declaration has been introduced for parcels for the British Expeditionary Force which is served by the Army Post Office. For parcels addressed to British troops elsewhere abroad, the use of the usual customs declaration is required by the country of destination; the forms may however be completed in English and it is not necessary for the senders to make the declaration relating to export licences at the foot of the form.

KING CHARLES STATUE.

Mr. Leonard: asked the First Commissioner of Works how many standards of timber and sheets of corrugated iron were used for the air-raid protection of the statue of King Charles in Whitehall; and the total cost of the work involved?

The First Commissioner of Works (Mr. Ramsbotham): The historic equestrian statue of King Charles I, which has well been described as the most famous of its kind in this country, is, with its pedestal, of considerable size. Two-and-three quarter standards of timber and 140 sheets of corrugated iron were used for its protection, and the total cost of the work was £320, of which nearly one-half was for labour.

Mr. Leonard: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the type of timber used for this purpose is urgently needed in Scotland to strengthen the tenement buildings there, where there is great danger; and if the First Commissioner has any further timber of this character available will he direct it to the Home Secretary so that it can be used for the protection of human life?

ENEMY ACTION (BRITISH ISLES).

Sir A. Southby: asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether any instances have occurred of bombardment of any places in the British Isles by enemy submarines or surface vessels?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty (Mr. Shakespeare): No, Sir.

CONTROLLERS.

Colonel Baldwin-Webb: asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the growing dissatisfaction of the country with the activities of conťrollers in general, he will consider reducing the number drastically with the object of allowing private traders to conducť their businesses on relatively normal lines in the interest of the community as a whole?

The Prime Minister: I cannot accept ťhe implications underlying this question. Plans were carefully prepared in advance to meet the exigencies of war and to promote the inťerests of the community. These plans are constantly reviewed in ťhe light of existing circumstances. In my judgment, it would not be in the interests of the country ťo adopt the proposal contained in the quesťion.

BRITISH PROPAGANDA (FOREIGN COUNTRIES).

Mr. Levy: asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to the criticisms of our foreign propaganda as inadequate; is he saťisfied that everything possible is being done in this direction; and will he consider appointing a small committee of experts in this propaganda to review our machinery for this work, and make recommendations for iťs greater efficiency?

The Prime Minister: My attention has been called to criticism of our propaganda in foreign countries, but I may observe that public opinion in mosť of these countries appears to be favourable to the Allies. The machinery of our publicity abroad is constantly under review and is, I hope I may say, constantly being improved. I am not saťisfied that the appointment of a special committee is either necessary or desirable at the present stage.

Miss Rathbone: Would it noť be possible to make greater use of the knowledge and experience of foreign refugees who know the mentality of Germany?

The Prime Minister: Considerable use is being made of them now.

MINISTRY OF SUPPLY.

WOOL.

Mr. W. Roberts: asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that several woollen mills on both sides of the Scottish Border are likely to have to start working short time as a result of the insufficient wool supplies allocated to them by the Wool Control Board; and whether he will take prompt steps to remedy this?

The Minister of Supply (Mr. Burgin): The wool available for manufacture for civilian, including export, purposes, after Government requirements have been met, is distributed equitably among the firms in the industry under a rationing scheme. It is open to any firm which considers itself unfairly treated to put its case before its Sectional Rationing Committee, which for this case is the Scottish Rationing Committee, and is composed of representatives of the industry, and is responsible for distributing the wool to individual firms. I understand that in the case of some firms in the district mentioned provisional allocation was made pending the determination of the full allotment available. This appears to have led to misunderstanding in some cases, but the full amount of its allotment has now I understand been communicated to every firm.

Mr. Levy: Is my right hon. Friend aware that when orders are obtained for the export trade there is great difficulty in getting the raw wool, because the rationing system is too mean to allow the export trade to be continued?

Mr. Burgin: No, Sir, I am not aware of anything of the kind.

Mr. Levy: If I send particulars to my right hon. Friend will he give them consideration?

Mr. Burgin: Of course.

Mr. W. Roberts: asked the Minister of Supply whether prices for British wools have been fixed; and whether all the arrangements for the sale of wool by Britsh farmers have been made so that farmers who are in need of ready money can proceed with the sale of their wool?

Mr. Burgin: Orders are about to be issued fixing the prices to be paid for British wools still in the farmers' ownership, and the arrangements for taking


over such wools have been made. I should be ready to discuss with representatives of the farmers, as soon as possible, the principles on which the 1940 clip should be dealt with; on the assumption that the war conditions will continue and that the 1940 clip will be requisitioned. I hope that this assurance will make it clear that the Government recognises that to secure the production of adequate supplies of home-grown wool, prices must be fixed on an economic basis.

Mr. Roberts: Do I understand from that answer that before dealing with the 1940 clip arrangements have been carefully made for dealing with that of 1939?

Mr. Burgin: Yes, Sir, that is what the answer says.

Mr. Roberts: Would the Minister publish the prices of British wools?

Mr. Burgin: Wool is not one commodity. It consists of a very large number of grades, and I would prefer in question and answer not to go into detail. If the hon. Gentleman will put down a question I will see whether I can have the material extracted. In the Australian wool clip there are 900 grades.

Mr. Macquisten: Why are not the farmers getting their money? They are all gasping for it.

Mr. Burgin: The money is all ready for them.

Mr. Leach: asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that the assurances of officers of the wool control that they will cease active participation in any business connected with the industry are not always being kept, either in the letter or the spirit, and that the bulk of the concerns in which they were interested are being carried on by partners, managers, or others; and whether he will replace them by persons who have been thrown out of work by the control?

Mr. Burgin: The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative.I have twice previously offered to investigate any evidence of unfair practices by officers of the Control, but none has been produced to me, and I very much deprecate general accusations, unsup-

ported by evidence, against gentlemen who have undertaken a public service, in many cases at considerable inconvenience to themselves. In reply to the second part of the question, I have no doubt that the concerns in question are being carried on so far as circumstances permit. The answer to the third part of the question is in the negative, but I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to a question asked by him on 8th November.

Mr. Leach: Does the right hon. Gentleman not know that the facts stated in my question are thoroughly well-known throughout the trade, and that if evidence is not forthcoming it is not because it is not there?

Mr. Burgin: I know nothing of the kind. I know that whenever an allegation of this kind has been made against a controller or an officer in any part of the Ministry under my control I have invited those who have evidence to bring it forward, because it is in the interests of good administration to have matters of that kind cleared up once and for all, one way or the other.

PAPER.

Mr. Isaacs: asked the Minister of Supply whether the office occupied by the Paper Control is the same office as the Paper Makers' Association; and will he state the number of persons employed in the Paper Control organisation?

Mr. Burgin: The building at Reading in which the offices of the Paper Control are located is also occupied, as a wartime arrangement, by certain staff of the Paper Makers' Association. The permanent office of the association remains, I understand, in London. The number of persons in the employment of the Paper Control is 64.

Mr. Isaacs: asked the Minister of Supply whether there are on the Paper Control Board representatives of paper-users in addition to paper-makers; whether he is aware that the Paper Makers' Association have recommended their members to cancel all contracts and to charge maximum-controlled prices; and whether he will prevent such action in view of the effect upon employment in the printing industry?

Mr. Burgin: Paper-users are represented on the advisory committees which have been set up to ensure the fullest possible co-operation between the Paper Controller and the interests concerned. I understand that war conditions have resulted in the costs of paper making being substantially above the prices in a number of pre-war contracts which some makers had entered into. The position under these contracts is a matter to be settled by the parties to them. I am satisfied that the maximum prices in the Orders I have made are in present conditions fair to consumers.

Mr. Isaacs: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the operations of this board and the delay in obtaining paper by printers are leading to a great deal of unemployment in the printing trade?

Mr. Burgin: Yes, Sir. I am afraid that is one of the consequences of the shortage of paper.

Mr. Isaacs: Is it due to the shortage of paper or the bad management of the Control Board?

Mr. Burgin: It is due to the shortage of the material for making paper.

TIMBER.

Captain Ramsay: asked the Minister of Supply whether he will supply the names of the committee responsible for the control of timber?

Mr. Burgin: The control of timber is administered under my direction by the Timber Control, and for the names of the controller and his staff and advisory committee I would refer to the answer which I gave to the hon. Member for Dundee (Mr. Foot) on 23rd November).

Captain Ramsay: asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that the Timber Control Committee have refused to release sufficient timber for the completion of a parish church in Newton-grange, Midlothian; and whether, having regard to the fact that there is at present no church to serve the needs of the 7,000 inhabitants, he will take the matter up with the Timber Control with a view to the immediate release of sufficient timber for this essential work?

Mr. Burgin: I am aware of the case mentioned by my hon. and gallant Friend. In this and other analogous cases

it has been necessary to suspend action for defence reasons. The priority committee for works and building is now, however, considering further the question of possible release of timber for other than Government purposes.

Captain Ramsay: Before my right hon. Friend releases more timber for boarding-up statues will he consider such claims as this?

Mr. Charles Brown: Could not the right hon. Gentleman have used some of the timber which has been used for King Charles' statue?

UNEMPLOYMENT.

Mr. W. Joseph Stewart: asked the Minister of Supply whether any steps are being taken by his Department to bring into productive employment the large volume of unemployed labour now available in Durham by the setting up of suitable works?

Mr. Burgin: Certain extensions of works are in hand which will increase the demand for labour on munition work in this area and a number of firms have received substantial orders. I am informed by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour that unemployment in the mining industry has decreased and is still decreasing.

Mr. Stewart: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, in spite of what is being done by the Government, there are in Durham to-day over 50,000 persons still unemployed, and is it not possible for the Government to set up new factories in that area, in addition to giving Government work to existing factories, and in that way to absorb a certain percentage of those people, many of whom have been unemployed for a long period of years?

Mr. Burgin: We shall have an opportunity of discussing that further in a few minutes, but one of the necessities in quick production is to increase the existing factories rather than to wait until new factories can be brought into production.

Mr. Hogg: asked the Minister of Supply what has been done in the last two months to mitigate the serious unemployment situation in Oxford?

Mr. Burgin: The unemployment in Oxford is due to falling off since the outbreak of war in the demand for light cars produced by the motor industry at Cowley. I referred to the matter at length in the answer which I gave my hon. Friend on 2nd November. I am afraid that I am unable to report any improvement since that date in the demand for light cars. I understand, however, that other branches of the Morris organisation are making use of the Cowley works for subcontract work, whenever the plant is suitable, and that those factories producing the industrial type of vehicle are employed to capacity. I can assure my hon. Friend that I will do all I can to help.

Mr. Hogg: Will my right hon. Friend hear in mind that unemployment is not confined to the Morris factory, but is found also in the radiator factory, which is capable of production in many other spheres, and also in pressed steel, which is capable of the direct production of armaments?

Mr. Burgin: Yes, Sir, the pressed steel company has received considerable orders and can be utilised. Radiators present a much more difficult problem, but as soon as they can in any way be absorbed in the armament programme they will be.

Mr. Glenvil Hall: Will the right hon. Gentleman call the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the first part of his answer?

CONTRACTS.

Sir Granville Gibson: asked the Minister of Supply whether his attention has been drawn to a list supplied to his Department by the Association of British Chambers of Commerce of names of 997 contractors and sub-contractors who are available and anxious to assist his Department in various parts of the country; and whether he proposes to avail himself of these offers and in this way to develop all available sources of supply and thereby increase employment?

Mr. Burgin: Particulars of the firms included in the list to which my hon. Friend refers have been noted in the records of the Central Priority Organisation, so as to be readily available for consideration when the need arises for additional capacity of the kinds which the firms

might supply. I should expect further that we shall be able to make use of many of the firms who wish to undertake sub-contracting, through the medium of the new area organisation which is being set up.

Sir G. Gibson: Is it not an extraordinary and unsatisfactory state of affairs that while £1,000,000 has been spent upon new buildings and in making additions to other buildings—with Government assistance—there should be nearly 1,000 firms, many of whom must be efficient, whose services have not already been utilised?

Mr. Burgin: The firms, I have no doubt, are efficient. The trouble is that the capacity which these firms offer is not of the character which is required for a munitions programme. Many of them will progressively be brought into the programme as orders for general stores are placed, but with a munitions programme theirs is not the type of capacity which can give quick results.

IRON AND STEEL INDUSTRY.

Mr. Stokes: asked the Minister of Supply (1) by what sums the iron and steel industry has decreased its indebtedness to the banks, by way of debenture or otherwise, between 1st January, 1936, and 1st April, 1939, or alternatively, between 1st April, 1936, and 1st April, 1939, no account being taken of debentures created in that period to finance newly created assets;
(2) the present capital value of the steel industry as covered by the 1939 Import Duties Advisory Committee's Report, and the total expenditure, other than that covered by special issues of capital or debentures, on new fixed assets between 1st January, 1936, and 1st January, 1939, or between 1st April, 1936, and 1st April, 1939?

Mr. Burgin: I regret that the information asked for is not available either to me or to my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade.

Mr. Stokes: Is the Minister aware that the policy at present being followed is to make the steel industry an effective monopoly under the control of the Bank of England, and is he satisfied that that is in the public interest?

Mr. Burgin: No, Sir, I do not think that that is the policy or that it would be satisfactory.

MATERIAL AND EQUIPMENT CONTROLLERS.

Mr. Stokes: asked the Minister of Supply whether, in the public interest, he will require that all those serving as controllers of material and equipment in his Department should resign from all commercial positions, and forgo the emoluments attaching thereto until the war is ended?

Mr. Burgin: No, Sir. I have already stated, in reply to earlier questions, that all the Controllers whom I have appointed are required during the tenure of their posts to cease from active participation in business enterprises in any way connected with the industry whose materials they are controlling. Subject to that, I do not regard it as either necessary or proper to introduce the stipulations which the hon. Member suggests.

Mr. Stokes: Does the Minister really think that it is satisfactory from the public point of view that these people should be asked to serve two masters?

Mr. Burgin: I do not think they are asked to serve two masters at all. Every controller who comes into a Government Department gives the same undertaking, that he will during the period of his service refrain from active participation in any business connected with the commodity which he is controlling, and I feel that to be a sensible and businesslike arrangement which will commend itself to the good sense of the House.

Mr. Garro Jones: Seeing that participation in other businesses is allowed, what is the use of forbidding them to participate in their businesses, if their whole financial interest remains in those businesses?

Mr. Burgin: I do not think it would be a particularly desirable thing to take a man from business and induce him to give his time to the State free of charge and then deprive him of any other income at all?

FOOD SUPPLIES.

MEAT.

Mr. J. Morgan: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether it is proposed to include all grades of cow-beef in the full marketing and price-control scheme for home-meat supplies proposed for the New Year?

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. W. S. Morrison): The answer is in the affirmative. I should perhaps explain to the hon. Member that it is contemplated that low-grade cow-beef will be used for manufacturing purposes rather than for distribution as such to the public.

Mr. Boothby: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he can now give details of the full system of livestock control to be introduced next month?

Colonel Baldwin-Webb: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster when he expects to be able to make a statement on the number and sites of the retained slaughter-houses which will, according to official anticipation, be needed in connection with the rationing of meat scheme?

Mr. Morrison: Until the final details have been settled of the Orders necessary to bring in full control over the collection and slaughtering of livestock and the distribution of meat, it would be impracticable to give a comprehensive statement of the details of the plan of control. Briefly, however, the proposal is that all fatstock will be bought by the Ministry of Food at prescribed prices, according to grade and classification, at collecting centres. Practically all the livestock markets at which fatstock are normally sold, have been approved as collecting centres. The stock so purchased will be slaughtered on behalf of the Government at selected slaughterhouses, and the resulting meat will be distributed, through wholesale meat supply associations, acting as agents of the Ministry, to the retail trade, at prices which will include delivery. Fat pigs will also be bought by the Ministry at prescribed prices. Producers of pigs will have the option either of sending their pigs to a collecting centre or of consigning them direct to a bacon factory. Fat pigs sent to collecting centres will be classified into bacon pigs, pork pigs and pigs for manufacturing purposes. Bacon pigs will be sent from collecting centres to bacon factories and the remaining pigs to one or other of the selected slaughterhouses to which I have already referred, for subsequent sale by retailers or for use by meat manufacturers. The number and sites of the slaughterhouses selected for use under the control plan for livestock and meat have been under review and,


as a result, a number of additional slaughterhouses are being selected. The number will be about 750. As soon as the list of slaughterhouses has been finally settled, following this review, I will arrange for the list which I have had placed in the Library of the House of Commons to be brought up to date. I should add that I propose to set up tribunals on a suitable basis to advise me, in the light of the working of the scheme, on appeals for the inclusion in the plan of slaughterhouses omitted at its inception.

Mr. Boothby: In fixing the price for cattle will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the desirability of encouraging the production of high-quality catťle?

Colonel Baldwin-Webb: Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that the number and location of slaughterhouses will be kept continuously under review so that difficulťies, such as those connected with transport, may be avoided; and when dealing with the question of pigs will Ire also assure the House that the pig raised by a cottager shall noť be subject to control?

Mr. Morrison: In regard to the first supplementary question, I can tell my hon. Friend that I will give due weight to ťhe consideration which he mentioned, along with the other considerations mentioned in my reply. In regard to the second supplementary question, I assure my hon. and gallant Friend that arrangements will be made ťo keep the selected slaughterhouses continuously under review and to make, in the light of experience, such adaptations as experience proves to be necessary. In regard to pigs, there is a question later on the Paper.

Mr. Jagger: Will ťhe right hon. Gentleman reconsider his refusal to print that list of slaughterhouses, as it would be a great convenience to many Members of the House?

Mr. Morrison: I have put the list in the Library and arranged for it to be brought up to daťe. If there is a demand for it to be printed I will gladly reconsider the matter.

Mr. Lunn: asked ťhe Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster the arrangements and ťhe conditions in the distribution of meat in the West Riding of York, as

between the slaughterhouses, the wholesalers, the retailers and the consumers; and the locaťion of the slaughterhouses in the Riding?

Mr. Morrison: The North-Eastern Area Wholesale Meat Supply Association has been set up to serve as the Government's agents for ťhe wholesale distribution of meat when full control of meat and livestock is introduced. The association comprises the wholesale meat traders in Northumberland, Durham and Yorkshire and will be responsible, inter alia, for the wholesale disťribution of meat from the slaughterhouses in the West Riding. The association will have a representative at each slaughterhouse operating under the scheme of control; he will receive the meat produced there from the slaughterhouse manager and will sell it to the retailers attached to that slaughterhouse in the amounts shown in their buying permits. Butchers will be required to furnish such particulars as may be necessary to enable their buying permits to be compiled. As regards the list of selected slaughterhouses in ťhe West Riding, which will operate under control, I would refer the hon. Member to my earlier reply to-day.

MILK.

Mr. J. Morgan: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he has under consideration an increase in the producers' price for milk; and whether it is proposed that this increase shall be passed on to the housewife in a correspondingly higher retail price; or whether the Governmenť will take other steps to keep down the retail price of milk, seeing that it is the most vital food available under war conditions?

Mr. W. S. Morrison: I would refer the hon. Member ťo the answer which my hon. Friend gave yesterday to my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham (Sir R. Gower). The points to which the hon. Member refers are included within the consideration which is being given to the subject. I hope to be in a position to make a statement to-morrow.

Mr. Morgan: Is the right hon. Gentleman in a position to consider representations to-morrow that, if the farmer does receive a higher price, steps can be taken, if the right hon. Gentleman is convinced in the matter, so that the increase shall not be passed on to the consumer?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir, I am always in a position to consider any representation of that kind.

Mr. T. Williams: When making any statement on the question of the price of milk, particularly should there be a change, will the right hon. Gentleman supply the House with the basis of calculation?

Mr. Morrison: I am always prepared to give the House any information I can.

RATIONING.

Mr. Purbrick: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what is the reason for the proposed rationing of certain foodstuffs such as butter and bacon; and whether, before bringing in such regulations, he will present to the House the detailed figures showing the position as regards stocks and estimated supplies, and the estimated consumption under rationing compared with the previous consumption?

Mr. W. S. Morrison: As regards the first part of the question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the full statement which I made in the House during the course of the Debate on 8th November. As regards the second part, my hon. Friend will realise that it would not be in the national interest to make public detailed information as to stocks, and estimated supplies and consumption of foodstuffs.

Mr. Graham White: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether it is his wish that, pending the coming into force of the rationing scheme, consumers should reduce voluntarily their consumption to the amount of the official ration?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir. Consumers will be acting in the public interest by restricting voluntarily, pending the introduction of the rationing scheme, their purchases of both the commodities, namely, bacon and ham and butter, to four ounces per week. I have asked consumers also to restrict their purchases of sugar to one pound per head per week.

Mr. Sorensen: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he can yet make a statement as to the possibility of granting extra rationing allow-

ances of butter to patients needing the greater amount who have a medical recommendation to that effect?

Mr. Morrison: I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which my hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member for Aberdare (Mr. George Hall) on 3oth November.

Mr. George Griffiths: May I ask the Food Controller whether he will be able to issue a statement so that these 300,000 diabetics will know how they will be affected after 8th January?

Mr. Morrison: I appreciate the anxiety of the hon. Member and a statement will be issued as soon as possible.

Mr. Griffiths: Before Christmas?

FLOUR.

Mr. De Ia Bère: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether, with a view to maintaining the health of the nation and making the best use of our foodstuffs, the Government will consider making use of flour which contains the whole of the wheat grain?

Mr. W. S. Morrison: The maintenance of the health of the nation and the best use of foodstuffs are matters which my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health and I have constantly in mind. The issue raised by my hon. Friend is one which has recently been under consideration in all its aspects, including variations in public taste and the supply of animal feeding-stuffs. I cannot under present conditions undertake to adopt his suggestion.

Mr. De Ia Bère: Can the right hon. Gentleman say what is it that the milling combines gain one-half so precious as the nation's health?

Mr. Morrison: The question should be addressed to the combines which the hon. Member mentions.

BUTTER.

Mr. A. Jenkins: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he can state the total quantity of unsuitable butter issued and returned in South Wales and Monmouthshire to date?

Mr. W. S. Morrison: Since my reply to the hon. Member's question of 8th November no claims for returned butter have been received in the Department from South Wales and Monmouthshire,


and I am informed that whilst there have been some cases of return which have been handled by the area distribution officer these have been in respect of small quantities.

Sir T. Moore: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether in the pool butter sold to the public there is any admixture of Russian butter; and if so, to what extent?

Mr. Morrison: No, Sir. I would add that there is no "pooling" of butter under control apart from the blending normally carried out by the trade.

Sir T. Moore: In view of the noise in this part of the House, might I ask the right hon. Gentleman to say again whether there is any question of any admixture of Russian butter?

Mr. Morrison: No, Sir.

COTTAGERS' PIGS.

Colonel Baldwin-Webb: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he can yet make a statement as to the Government policy about granting permission to cottagers to keep pigs for home or neighbours' consumption, and the reasons for the delay in reaching a decision?

Mr. W. S. Morrison: As my hon. and gallant Friend is aware, I am now engaged in working out the arrangements for the purchase of fatstock and for the control of its marketing. These arrangements will include provision for cottagers and others to produce pigs for home consumption. The detailed regulations which are in course of preparation will be directed to encouraging this form of production within the framework of the scheme.

Colonel Baldwin-Webb: Can the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that the production of pigs by cottagers will be within their own control and will not be subject to a scheme of centralisation?

Mr. Morrison: Pigs produced by cottagers for their own use can be produced quite freely and will be theirs to consume.

LOCAT. FOOD COMMITTEES.

Mr. C. Brown: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster why it had been ruled that a co-operative insurance agent, who is a local councillor, is ineligible to sit on a local food committee?

Mr. W. S. Morrison: I assume that the hon. Member is referring to a particular appointment, on the Mansfield Food Control Committee, in regard to which a question arose as to the application of Article 2 (2) (b) of the Food Control Committees (Constitution) Order, 1939. Further particulars recently received show that there is no disqualification on grounds of occupation, and the objection to the appointment is accordingly being withdrawn.

BACON-CURERS (SCOTLAND).

Sir T. Moore: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he will state, by counties, the number of small bacon-curers in Scotland who will be able to operate owing to their average weekly output of bacon in 1938 having been 5 cwt. or more?

Mr. W. S. Morrison: As the answer contains a number of figures, I will, with my hon. and gallant Friend's permission, circulate them in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the information:

The number of bacon curers, by counties, in Scotland, whose average weekly output of bacon in 1938 was as much as 5 hundredweight but was less than 15 hundredweight is as follows:


Ayrshire
…
…
5


Fifeshire
…
…
2


Lanarkshire
…
…
4


Midlothian
…
…
2


Perthshire
…
…
2


Renfrewshire
…
…
2


Stirlingshire
…
…
1


West Lothian
…
…
1

These curers will qualify for a bacon production licence under the Bacon (Licensing of Producers) Order, provided they are able to comply with the requirements of the licence as regards the type of bacon to be produced.

YEAST.

Mr. R. Gibson: asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether, in view of the increased and still rising costs, he will, in the interests of consumers, institute a control of yeast?

Mr. W. S. Morrison: An undertaking has been given by manufacturers that the price of yeast will not be raised without reference to the Ministry of Food. In accordance with this undertaking, small increases in the prices of the lowest grades have been notified, but they are not such as to justify the introduction of control.

Mr. Gibson: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, following on a suggestion from his Department, a meeting of manufacturers in this business was convened for to-morrow, but that the large financial interest in that trade has peremptorily refused to attend, and will he deal with the matter because it is becoming apparent that the large financial interest is determined to use the war emergency to crush the smaller manufacturers?

Mr. Morrison: I will gladly go into any information which the hon. Member can give to me.

POTATOES (GOVERNMENT POLICY).

Mr. Boothby: (by Private Notice) asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he is now in a position to announce the policy of the Government with regard to potatoes?

Mr. W. S. Morrison: The Government have given careful consideration to the question of ensuring to farmers in the United Kingdom reasonable prices for Ware potatoes of the 1939 crop. At present the trade in Ware potatoes is subject only to the Orders of the Ministry of Food prescribing maximum prices. It is proposed in the near future after consultation with the interests concerned, to fix minimum prices for the remainder of the season. Maximum prices will also be fixed to enable account to be taken of variations in value due to special quality or proximity to markets. The Government have taken over the regulatory powers of the Potato Marketing Board and propose to watch the situation closely and to exercise those powers as and when required. It is proposed by means of a tonnage levy payable by the first buyers, to create an insurance fund which, after the deduction of a small percentage towards the cost of the scheme will be used to ensure to farmers a reasonable return for any surplus crop remaining at the end of the season. No deduction will be made from the growers' price in respect of this levy, which will be added by the first buyer to his price on re-sale. It is not anticipated that the retail price will be appreciably affected. The details of arrangements on these lines are now being discussed with the interests concerned.
As regards the 1940 crop, the Government have already announced that it is desired, as part of the home food production campaign, to secure a substantial in-

crease in the acreage planted to potatoes next spring. Minimum prices for that crop will be fixed on the basis of the new 1939 minimum prices with such adjustment as may be necessary to take account of increased costs of production and in relation to yield. As regards the proposed adjustment in relation to yield, it will be appreciated that, if the yield of the crop generally is above normal, farmers should not expect the same tonnage return as if the yield were normal. Similarly, if yield is abnormally low, it would be right to adjust the price per ton upwards. In the event of a surplus, whether resulting from an expansion of acreage, or exceptional yields, the Ministry of Food will make the necessary arrangements for ensuring that growers will be enabled to obtain a remunerative return on their potato crop as a whole. The assurances I have given will apply in respect of all potatoes of the 194o crop marketed after 1st September.

Mr. Boothby: May we take it that the Government have for the period of the war completely taken over the functions hitherto discharged by the Potato Marketing Board?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir. The Ministry of Food have taken over the functions of the Potato Marketing Board.

Mr. T. Williams: Are we to understand that the producer in future will be guaranteed by the Food Minister a minimum price for potatoes taken off his farm?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir. As regards the 1939 crop, it is proposed, by means of this levy, to provide an insurance fund to ensure that any surplus potatoes will be sold at a price which will be remunerative to the producer. As regards the 1940 crop, the arrangements with regard to the minimum price will be designed to secure a remunerative and fair return to the growers.

Lieut.-Colonel Sir William Allen: Does that statement apply to Northern Ireland?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir; this applies to Northern Ireland. I am in communication with the Minister of Agriculture in Northern Ireland.

Sir Joseph Lamb: In view of the fact that the consumer is being charged more than £9 a ton and that the farmer is getting only £3 10s. a ton, does my right hon. Friend realise the urgency of the matter?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir, I realise that this matter must be pressed on with the least possible delay. I cannot give a date, but here will be no delay.

Mr. J. Morgan: Is the right hon. Gentleman providing any facilities for seeing that the surplus expected this season shall be put to good uses as feeding-stuffs?

Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir; that is being very carefully and exhaustively considered.

Oral Answers to Questions — ACCIDENT, HATFIELD MAIN COLLIERY.

Mr. T. Williams: (by Private Notice) asked the Secretary for Mines whether he can give the House the latest information regarding the accident which has happened at the Hatfield Main Colliery?

The Secretary for Mines (Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd): Yes, Sir. I much regret to inform the House that 64 persons were involved in a winding accident which occurred at this colliery early yesterday afternoon. The accident occurred at the change of shifts when 52 persons were being lowered and 12 raised in the cages. The descending cage struck the shaft bottom and the ascending cage was arrested in the head gear after the winding rope had been detached. The injured were sent to hospital and according to information which I have just received from the hospital, 52 are still detained, most of them suffering from fractured legs. The cause of the accident is under investigation.
I am sure the House will wish to join me in expressing sympathy with these men injured in the course of their duty and a hope for their speedy recovery.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. Attlee: May I ask the Prime Minister the business for the week after the House reassembles?

The Prime Minister: The business will be as follows:
Tuesday, 16th January—I shall make a statement on a Motion for the Adjournment of the House.
Wednesday, 17th January—Second Reacting of the Gas and Steam Vehicles (Excise Duties) Bill.
Thursday, 18th January—Second Reading of the India and Burma Miscellaneous Amendment Bill, which is expected to be received from another place To-day.

SECRET SESSION.

Mr. Mander: I rise, Mr. Speaker, to ask you to be good enough to give a Ruling on the following point: whether Members of the House of Commons will be entitled to communicate to Members of another place who have not been present at the Secret Session information as to what took place at such Session?

Mr. Speaker: In reply to the hon. Member, under Standing Order No. 89 it is conceded, as a matter of courtesy, not of right, that Members of the other House may remain here during Secret Sessions when other strangers are ordered to withdraw. If a Member of this House who is present at the Debate discloses what has taken place at the Secret Session to a Member of the other House who was not present, but who could have been present had he so desired, he might be adjudged to have committed a technical offence, but it would be for the House to decide whether a breach of Privilege had been committed and on the gravity of the offence.

Mr. Thorne: I take it for granted that the Ruling you have given, Sir, will apply to absent Members of this House as well?

Mr. Speaker: Their position is very much the same.

Mr. G. Griffiths: If a Member of another place divulges to his wife what has gone on in this House, what is to be the penalty for him?

Mr. Speaker: Perhaps it would be as well for me to say what, in my opinion, is the position in this matter of Members of the other House. I said just now that it is conceded, as a matter of courtesy not of right, that Members of the other House may remain here during Secret Sessions when other strangers are ordered to withdraw. If a Member of the other House were guilty of disclosure of the proceedings at such a Session it would be left to the House of which he is a Member to inflict the appropriate penalty. The usual proceeding would be to examine


into the fact and to lay a statement of the evidence before the other House, whose duty it would be, upon being apprised of the fact, to take proper measures to inquire into it and punish the offender. In this connection, it is not necessary to refer to any liability to prosecution which exists under the Defence Regulation made under the Order-in Council of 11th December.

Sir J. Lamb: In view of the limited accommodation usually provided here for Members of the other House, would it be possible to allow them, if they so desire, to be accommodated in the Public Gallery?

Mr. Speaker: I see no objection to that.

SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE.

Resolved,
That this House do meet To-morrow at Twelve of the clock; that no Questions be taken after One of the clock; and that Mr. Speaker shall not adjourn the House until he shall have reported the Royal Assent to the Acts which have been agreed upon by both Houses, but that, subject to this condition, Mr. Speaker, at Five of the clock, shall adjourn the House without Question put." —[The Prime Minister.]

ADJOURNMENT (CHRISTMAS).

Resolved,
That this House, at its rising To-morrow, do adjourn until Tuesday, 16th January." — [The Prime Minister.]

MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

That they have passed a Bill, intituled, "An Act to amend the Government of India Act, 1935, and the Government of Burma Act, 1935, in certain respects and to make a consequential amendment in the Naval Discipline Act; and for purposes connected with the matters aforesaid." [India and Burma (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill [Lords.]

INDIA AND BURMA (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) BILL [Lords].

Read the Fist time; to be read a Second time upon Tuesday 16th January, and to be printed. [Bill 9.]

Orders of the Day — WAYS AND MEANS.

REPORT [12TH DECEMBER].

GAS AND STEAM VEHICLES (EXCISE DUTIES).

Resolution reported:
That as from the first day of January, nineteen hundred and forty, the duties of Excise chargeable in respect of mechanically-propelled vehicles under paragraph 5 of the Second Schedule to the Finance Act, 1920, as amended by any subsequent enactment (hereafter in this Resolution referred to as 'the relevant paragraph'), shall be varied as follows:—

(1) For the purpose of computing the rate of the duty chargeable under any provision of the relevant paragraph in respect of a goods vehicle, the weight unladen of the vehicle shall, if the vehicle carries a container for holding gas for the propulsion of the vehicle or plant for producing such gas, be reduced—

(a) where the weight unladen exceeds twelve hundredweight but does not exceed three tons, by half a ton;
(b) where the weight unladen exceeds three tons but does not exceed six tons, by three-quarters of a ton;
(c) where the weigh unladen exceeds six tons, by one ton;

(2) Notwithstanding that a goods vehicle is used for drawing a trailer, the vehicle shall not be chargeable with duty under sub-paragraph (d) of the relevant paragraph if the trailer is used solely for the carriage of—

(a) a container for holding gas for the propulsion of the vehicle; or
(b) plant and materials for producing such gas;

(3) Sub-paragraph (c) (ii) of the relevant paragraph (which relates to goods vehicles propelled by steam or constructed or adapted to use coal gas as fuel) shall haze effect as if the word 'gas' were substituted for the words 'coal gas';

(4) The rates of duty chargeable under the said sub-paragraph (c) (ii), as amended by this Resolution shall, in the case of vehicles not exceeding one-and-a-half tons in weight unladen, be as follows:—



£


Not exceeding 12 cwt. in weight unladen
10


Exceeding 12 cwt. but not ex-ceeding 1 ton in weight unladen
15


Exceeding 1 ton but not exceed-ing 1½ tons in weight unladen
20;

(5) for the purpose of this Resolution and the relevant paragraph as amended by this Resolution, the expression 'gas' shall mean

any fuel that is wholly gaseous at a temperature of sixty degrees Fahrenheit under a pressure of thirty inches of mercury.

And it is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1913."

Resolution agreed to.

Bill ordered to be brought in upon the said Resolution by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Captain Wallace, Captain Crookshank, Mr. Lloyd and Mr. Bernays.

GAS AND STEAM VEHICLES (EXCISE DUTIES) BILL.

"to reduce certain duties of excise chargeable in respect of goods vehicles driven by gas or steam," presented accordingly, and read the First time; to be read a Second time upon Tuesday, 16th January, and to be printed. [Bill 8.]

GAS UNDERTAKINGS ACTS, 1920 TO 1934.

Resolved,
That the draft of a Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under the Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 to 1934, on the application of the Mayor, Aldermen and Burgesses of the Borough of Newcastle-under-Lyme, which was presented on the 28th day of November and published, be approved."—[Mr. R. S. Hudson.]

SECRET SESSION.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Chamberlain): Mr. Speaker, I beg to call your attention to the fact that strangers are present.

Mr. Speaker: The Question is, "That strangers be ordered to withdraw."

Question put, and agreed to.

Strangers withdrew accordingly.

[The remainder of the Sitting was in Secret Session.]

The following report of the proceedings of the Secret Session was issued under the authority of Mr. SPEAKER:

The Adjournment of the House was moved by the Prime Minister and a Debate took place on the organisation of supplies for the prosecution of the war.